terms of use of the forum

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BasicCoder2
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terms of use of the forum

Postby BasicCoder2 » May 05, 2021 20:43

https://www.freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=29364&start=45
angros47 wrote:
So, my question is: should the terms of use of this forum be updated, to include some rule against misleading information and/or fake news?


What I think we can do is pick out posts that incite violence, discrimination or hate.

The best vaccination against misinformation and fake news is an education in logic, reason and the ability to follow the evidence.
Last edited by BasicCoder2 on May 06, 2021 1:04, edited 3 times in total.
marcov
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby marcov » May 05, 2021 20:48

Or simply rather than focussing on the negative and go on forbidding things, moderate more strictly on what is allowed i.e. ontopic-ness.
Last edited by marcov on May 05, 2021 21:06, edited 1 time in total.
jj2007
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby jj2007 » May 05, 2021 22:53

BasicCoder2 wrote:What I think we can do is pick out posts that incite violence, discrimination or hate.
Honestly, such posts are rare. In another forum, in the hot phase of the Trump debate, I have occasionally seen some borderline posts, and I also know one racist who keeps alluding at certain things; but these are really exceptions.

What I see much more frequently in programming forums is the attempt to denigrate others. Of course, you will rarely see an explicit "you are a lousy coder" yelled at a newcomer, but often those who are (or who believe to be) "professionals" display a very arrogant attitude versus members who are either less experienced, or who have (being hobby programmers) idiosyncratic coding styles.

Some people enjoy playing code police, and I find that very destructive in a forum. It kills the good spirit. Explaining to a newbie the use of local vs global variables is OK, but sometimes the tone of certain members vs newbies is disgusting. IMHO it does more damage than Albert's nonsense has ever done.

I agree with marcov that keeping threads on topic is important. However, we shouldn't overdo that, and I guess that it rarely requires an intervention by moderators. Usually the OP has enough authority to write "guys, please keep it on topic, or open your own thread".
robert
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby robert » May 06, 2021 1:02

marcov wrote:Or simply rather than focussing on the negative and go on forbidding things, moderate more strictly on what is allowed i.e. ontopic-ness.


I agree.

Also, "Trolling" and "Slow Trolling" specifically should be banned in FreeBASIC's terms of use and dealt with as soon as moderators become aware that the practice is occurring.

Slow trolling clues ? Seeking attention and ignoring response. Seem familiar ?
speedfixer
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby speedfixer » May 06, 2021 5:15

@jj2007:

I agree with marcov that keeping threads on topic is important. However, we shouldn't overdo that ...

I think this is what should dictate most of the moderators activities, but absolutely feel a place should be available for the social side of a community, and another for the recreational/creative side. squares and discussion have filled those roles. No specified topic for either; any topic (with reasonable good taste applied) fair game in either.

When any person starts in on personal attacks, that person should get a timeout - instantly - with an opportunity to explain or query the reason from the moderator. Not an opportunity to argue. The major problem: different cultures and expressions do not always translate effectively - resulting in an easily misinterpreted expression. A tough problem.

... display a very arrogant attitude ...

THIS is the crime that make newcomers fearful of actively joining a group. I experienced it when I joined, here. Time has passed, some attitudes have softened.

But it still happens too often.

Worse, there are several pairs of our long-time members that have no hesitancy to fan their personal flames of dislike at every opportunity. Personally, those largest offenders cause more harm to the atmosphere in the forums than the transient problem of Albert's mis-steps. They should given final warnings and booted.

Slow trolling? New term to me, seen it in practice, like the idea of that restriction.

policy tweak: maybe add a little " ... disrespect to others ... " type of language and a little " ... bulk of posts with only negative attitude ..." hint, maybe.

david
jj2007
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby jj2007 » May 06, 2021 8:06

@Speedfixer: I fully agree.

robert wrote:"Trolling" and "Slow Trolling" specifically should be banned in FreeBASIC's terms of use and dealt with as soon as moderators become aware that the practice is occurring.

Slow trolling clues ? Seeking attention and ignoring response. Seem familiar ?

I tried googling the term, but even a specific "Slow trolling" "programming" search (with quotes) brought up only fishery stuff ;-)

I am not sure whether I understand what you mean with "Seeking attention and ignoring response". Can you give an example?
deltarho[1859]
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby deltarho[1859] » May 06, 2021 8:56

This is how PowerBASIC does it.
Image
Where are FreeBASIC's 'terms of use'?
marcov
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby marcov » May 06, 2021 9:28

deltarho[1859] wrote:This is how PowerBASIC does it.

Where are FreeBASIC's 'terms of use'?


IMHO trying to spell everything out is a corporate/bureaucratic habit. In the end, I don't think that is really that productive for a forum of this scale. The problem is always people (almost) abiding by the letter, but not the spirit of the rules, and testing their limits.
This only makes it harder to moderate and increases discussion about moderation.

This is a moderated forum, and I think it is simply better to leave it up to the moderators. Have them remove really offensive stuff directly, and warn for other bad behaviour. Repeat offenders are banned. Choose your moderators from long time experienced users and devels. If there are factions on the forum (not applicable here I think), choose a mix of them. Provide a private moderator only channel for discussions.

Currently the moderation is not heavy handed (IMHO closer to the opposite), so I don't understand a need for change/rules in the first place.

Keep in mind, in the end, THAT is what got Albert banned, not abiding by moderator's decision.
jj2007
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby jj2007 » May 06, 2021 9:40

deltarho[1859] wrote:Where are FreeBASIC's 'terms of use'?
I'm not sure whether Bob Zale's philosophy ("I'm the boss") is the best model to start with ;-)

For comparison, an excerpt from the Masm32 Forum rules:
Respect For Members
2. The basis of the rules in the forum is respect for other members. Respect for new members who are struggling with assembler, respect for experienced members who are here to help and respect for differences between members. This cannot be done by rigid compliance to stated rules and is based on intent. Please remember that every person who posts in the forum is another human being and deserves to be treated like one.
fxm
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby fxm » May 06, 2021 11:13

I only see the 'terms of use' at the registration level:
freebasic.net - Registration

By accessing “freebasic.net” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “freebasic.net”, “https://www.freebasic.net/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “freebasic.net”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “freebasic.net” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Limited”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “GNU General Public License v2” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions; phpBB Limited is not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “freebasic.net” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “freebasic.net” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “freebasic.net” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
deltarho[1859]
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby deltarho[1859] » May 06, 2021 13:55

Thanks fxm. I clicked every button except that one. Image

@jj2007

My snapshot was not expressing an opinion about Bob Zale it was simply to illustrate how easy it was to access their 'terms of use'. Clearly I had seen them when I registered but, as time went by, I had forgotten how I saw them. They are in a good place, but access should also be in plain view. If I wanted to remind someone of them I would not have been able to do so before fxm reminded me. Being a member I had no need to click on the 'Register' button again. I wonder how many others, whose memory is not as good as it used to be, cannot remember how they saw the 'terms of use'.

Let us have a plain view access route in addition to being behind the 'Register' button as obvious as my snapshot.

Added: Ah, the 'Register' button is not available after logging in, so I couldn't point another member to it if they were logged in as well. PB's access to their 'terms of us' is available whether logged in or not.
fxm
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby fxm » May 06, 2021 16:13

IMHO, the text of the 'terms of use' should also be accessible from the 'Post Reply' window via a very prominent link.
paul doe
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby paul doe » May 06, 2021 16:34

The Forum Rules are available here:

Welcome to the forum

I agree that they are somewhat hidden, and that they should be more visible. Perhaps, in addition to having them handy when you post as fxm suggests, place that topic in the forum index, to be easily visible and accessible?
jj2007
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby jj2007 » May 06, 2021 19:37

paul doe wrote:The Forum Rules are available here:

Welcome to the forum

I agree that they are somewhat hidden, and that they should be more visible. Perhaps, in addition to having them handy when you post as fxm suggests, place that topic in the forum index, to be easily visible and accessible?

There is a fat horizontal bar above, it contains only the 3-line "Quick links" menu plus "Forums" and "Members". Both buttons are pretty useless, but that's another story. Does the forum software allow to add other buttons, such as "Downloads" or "Rules"? If not, could it be added to the quick links menu?
badidea
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Re: terms of use of the forum

Postby badidea » May 06, 2021 20:00

fxm wrote:IMHO, the text of the 'terms of use' should also be accessible from the 'Post Reply' window via a very prominent link.

paul doe wrote:The Forum Rules are available here: Welcome to the forum
I agree that they are somewhat hidden, and that they should be more visible. Perhaps, in addition to having them handy when you post as fxm suggests, place that topic in the forum index, to be easily visible and accessible?

Not too visible, I hope. A long time ago, I worked a year for an American company where every day at login on a Windows PC a large red stop sign was displayed together with some terms of use and an accept button before you could continue. Luckily, it was not to too difficult to disable this.

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