FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

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coderJeff
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby coderJeff » Jan 15, 2021 4:43

The great thing about having these discussions in the forum is that anyone can weigh in. But there's no scale for how much weight a post should have with readers. Last serveral posts have some good points, but in some posts the presentation is clumsy and don't do much for the project or the community.

I'm not able keep this project going all on my own. I'm no ling ling (meme, look it up for fun) that can work at this 40 hours a day. I knew that when I got back in to the project a few years ago.

So the long game is try to promote a positive attitude in the public forum, and maybe attract some developers that are interested in the project. And we've had a few serious contributions in the past year that gives me some motivation to keep going.

With the similarities between fbc and fpc it would be interesting to see where the common ground is and the limitations. Like making something in one language and trying to use it in the other. I suspect fbc's dependency on a "C" run-time may present some challenges.

If sourceforge.net download counts can be trusted, then downloads for windows is dominant at +90%. However there I feel there tends to be an even mix of developers and distributors for fbc itself between win and nix/bsd.

@marcov, I would like to continue our discussion. Maybe you can expand on your comment about doing what is possible with minimal work, and I will expand on the varargs stuff.
adeyblue
Posts: 48
Joined: Nov 07, 2019 20:08

Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby adeyblue » Jan 15, 2021 5:38

OK jj, I tried it from scratch exactly what you posted, with the 181220 zip on the masm32 forum page:

Code: Select all

*** Start C:\Masm32\MasmBasic\Res\bldallRM.bat ***
*** 32-bit assembly ***


*** Assemble, link and run test ***

*** Assemble using UAsm64  ***
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(54) : Error A2106: Cannot open file: "\masm32\include\masm32rt.inc" [ENOENT]
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(54): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(71) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(71): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(72) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(72): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(74) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(74): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(78) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(78): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(79) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(79): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(80) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(80): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(83) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(83): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(84) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(84): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(85) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(85): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(87) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(87): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(88) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(88): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(96) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(96): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(97) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(97): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(102) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(102): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(105) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(105): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(106) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(106): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(107) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(107): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(109) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(109): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(110) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(110): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(116) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(116): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(117) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(117): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(118) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(118): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(128) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(128): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(130) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(130): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(133) : Error A2091: Language type must be specified
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(133): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(150) : Error A2210: Syntax error: rect
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(150): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(216) : Error A2102: Symbol not defined : WIN32_FIND_DATAW
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(216): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(218) : Error A2102: Symbol not defined : POINT
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(218): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(452) : Error A2143: Symbol redefinition: ShowSlots
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(452): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(453) : Error A2092: PROC, MACRO or macro loop directive must precede LOCAL
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(453): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(464) : Error A2163: Unmatched macro nesting
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(464): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(620) : Error A2210: Syntax error: mask_
 \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(620): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(870): Included by
   \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
    Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(622) : Error A2210: Syntax error: state
 \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(622): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(870): Included by
   \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
    Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(623) : Error A2210: Syntax error: stateMask
 \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(623): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(870): Included by
   \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
    Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(624) : Error A2210: Syntax error: szID
 \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(624): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(870): Included by
   \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
    Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(625) : Error A2210: Syntax error: szUrl
 \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(625): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(870): Included by
   \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
    Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(628) : Error A2210: Syntax error: hdr
 \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(628): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(870): Included by
   \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
    Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(655) : Error A2082: Must be in segment block
 \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(655): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(870): Included by
   \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
    Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(656) : Error A2082: Must be in segment block
 \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\DualMacs.asm(656): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(870): Included by
   \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
    Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1966) : Error A2210: Syntax error: dwOSVersionInfoSize
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1966): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1967) : Error A2210: Syntax error: dwMajorVersion
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1967): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1968) : Error A2210: Syntax error: dwMinorVersion
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1968): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1969) : Error A2210: Syntax error: dwBuildNumber
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1969): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1970) : Error A2210: Syntax error: dwPlatformId
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1970): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1971) : Error A2210: Syntax error: szCSDVersion
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1971): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1972) : Error A2210: Syntax error: wServicePackMajor
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1972): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1973) : Error A2210: Syntax error: wServicePackMinor
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1973): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1974) : Error A2210: Syntax error: wSuiteMask
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1974): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1975) : Error A2210: Syntax error: wProductType
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1975): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1976) : Error A2210: Syntax error: wReserved
 \masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1976): Included by
  \masm32\MasmBasic\Res\MbGui.asm(6): Included by
   Tmp_File.asm(3): Main line code
\masm32\MasmBasic\MasmBasic.inc(1976) : Fatal error A1113: Too many errors
*** Assembly error ***


Very basic indeed.15 lines of code, 213 lines of errors.
Also, very informative other errors. Do I need to install some other things (which aren't mentioned anywhere)?

"Yeah, but if you'd have had <thing> it'd work fine..." I'm a beginner who apparently needs supervision to tie my shoe laces, I 've no idea about any of that stuff, All i've seen is how this is the 'best approach' to coding and done what you told me to do to get it, Doesn't seem that great tbh. Oh, RichMasm also leaks handles each time you cancel the uasm install box.

That's not a very good onboarding experience. This is Win7 too where it's supposed to be simpler

I know what you guys mean with the beginner thing now though, I've already deleted it and moved on to C#. Have you tried WPF? Updating controls and data without code is amazing

-----------

Alright, that's a mean hatchet job, but it's not fabricated. That's what happens when you get comfortable with your thing and know all its quirks, you underestimate just how quirky it can be for people who don't have the experience, because you never go through the starting steps again. I think that's a thing we can all learn from no matter our allegiences.

What's the obsession with turquoise though?
marcov
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby marcov » Jan 15, 2021 9:52

jj2007 wrote:
marcov wrote:specially if you have beginners as a potential target group
Should a BASIC dialect not have beginners as a potential target group? Why?


Look at the contents of the forum. Macro trickery all around. Is that beginner friendly? Also development is more general improvement for a compiler, and not specifically oriented at beginners.

It is more than just saying you are a beginners language. Do you really see signs of bringing that into practice?

I think e.g. QB64 does much better in that regard.
Lost Zergling
Posts: 403
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby Lost Zergling » Jan 15, 2021 10:45

Marcov wrote :
About FB orientation, that is indeed a different discussion, and one that I never understood to begin with(Beginners forever?..

It is more than just saying you are a beginners language. Do you really see signs of bringing that into practice?

Excuse me : viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26533
One of the main goals of the project :
"5 °) The instruction set must be easy enough to understand and use while being able to simply propose extended and complex functionalities, RAD spirit compliant."
Also have a look to documentation : viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26551
"Working with the tool therefore involves learning. This is inevitable because the tool itself wants to be easy to approach must also be able to allow the achievement of complexity and because this complexity affects the way of working with RAM. It is nevertheless possible to use the tool in a simple and effective way, but the deepening will always be exciting, if only by the ideas and perspectives of functional orientations... Working with list is becoming very easy just having a mental representation of that tree of indexed values, and imagine you can just pick values in the tree to send them to a garbage collector, to a protected flat list or to another list and vice-versa."
Unless there is an error or omission, CoderJeff is available to continue the discussion with you on the technical elements that you would like to add, discuss or see improved.
You prefer to focus the discussion on a review of ease of use. As demonstrated by a product like lzle / lzae, it is possible to implement mid-level functionalities via headers providing ease of use, without prejudice to the rest. I am not at all opposed to object orientation of language functionality as long as pointers speed can be generally preserved. The user is offered a scalable and efficient product, while knowing that he can climb quite freely in complexity upwards as well as downwards. Few languages can offer this.

Another fundamental point is the paradigm difference with 'pure object' languages:
From web : Additionally, standards of modern advanced languages constantly abstract the details of underlying hardware and data structures to generate general code that is more logical and mathematical, instead of specific operation instructions and memory access paths. C++ standards are increasingly expressive and abstract... "

In Lzle, ..memory access path is transposed as an abstraction, which is supported by the programmer who can anticipate and know the substitutability of memory slots, and this substitutable characteristic becomes an integral part of the application design.
Clearly, instead of trying to hide memory access paths, we make it a fundamental object of application design,..
and everything becomes simpler with open door to creativity (complexity), seems to me.
So far, excuse me.
jj2007
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby jj2007 » Jan 15, 2021 11:23

adeyblue wrote:OK jj, I tried it from scratch ... Do I need to install some other things (which aren't mentioned anywhere)?
Yes, MasmBasic needs the Masm32 SDK. This is kind of implied, since normally nobody arrives accidentally at one of the World's most exotic programming forums ;-)

Thank you for demonstrating how high the hurdles can be for a beginner (and you are a programming expert!). I see the MasmBasic installer worked fine (RichMasm is up and running, great; UAasm doesn't get installed, though - probably a firewall issue), but Steve Hutchesson's Masm32 SDK is missing because I forgot to mention this "minor" requirement. I do actually have a page with step-by-step instructions, but I chose to point you to the forum's download page - my bad!
Alright, that's a mean hatchet job, but it's not fabricated. That's what happens when you get comfortable with your thing and know all its quirks, you underestimate just how quirky it can be for people who don't have the experience, because you never go through the starting steps again. I think that's a thing we can all learn from no matter our allegiences.
Correct. IMHO FreeBasic would greatly benefit from an installer, at least for Windows, that contains an editor/IDE and the minimum requirements to get a n00b started. In case you liked the MasmBasic installer: I could provide one for FreeBasic, it's very easy. All I need is a list of the required files and their locations, plus the files, of course.

Try to imagine you are a real beginner, and you arrive at index.php. You decide to test FreeBasic, and you want to install it. Remember you don't know anything about FreeBasic yet, and you haven't followed any of the numerous "how to" threads. All you know is that your machine runs Windows, and you want to see your FreeBasic print "Hello World" in the next 10 minutes. Start clicking... (hint: there isn't even a "download" or "install" button)
What's the obsession with turquoise though?
Branding? ;-)
coderJeff wrote:I'm not able keep this project going all on my own. I'm no ling ling (meme, look it up for fun) that can work at this 40 hours a day
You (and some others) are doing a fantastic job, thank you for that. I wish there was more enthusiasm and positive thinking about this dialect of Basic. All I could offer myself is a proper installer for Windows, see above.
aurelVZAB
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby aurelVZAB » Jan 15, 2021 11:45

As i said many times before
main problem i have with FB long time ago when i want to use it on windows is not
installer then lack of editor inside fb pack
at that time i was totaly unexperienced and im simply stuck ..of course now i know how
but i can bet that many new people don't know how to start
and one even the simpliest editor packed with fbc would be excellent.

again
maybe i am wrong ...
dodicat
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby dodicat » Jan 15, 2021 21:12

jj2007
The starting page for FreeBASIC is
https://www.freebasic.net/
Then a new member would go to downloads/ files (as with most projects)
Then on that page you have fbedit and fbide as editors to get started.
I don't think the forum page would be an automatic starting point, although regular users only use the forum pages.
I don't know the German site set up, but I note that many members use both sites.
I was toying with the idea of trying the German site a few years ago, but my German is not good enough.
But I see that the ides are easier to locate on that site.
jj2007
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby jj2007 » Jan 16, 2021 0:05

You are right, dodicat, the starting page is indeed https://www.freebasic.net/, and that one does have a download button. Now one remain problem is: could we agree on a basic (pun intended) editor to be added to the 145MB package?
MrSwiss
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby MrSwiss » Jan 16, 2021 0:33

jj2007 wrote:Now one remain problem is: could we agree on a basic editor to be added to the 145MB package?
No, because only nOObs request that and, they are a dwindling minority, compared to all the others.
Who don't have the intent to download anything else, but the pure compiler when it's updated.
(They have the IDE of their choice already installed and configured to their liking.)

And no, it's not a problem at all ... at least not from my point of view.
jj2007
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby jj2007 » Jan 16, 2021 0:56

MrSwiss wrote:only nOObs request that
That's what we were discussing on this page.
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby MrSwiss » Jan 16, 2021 1:01

jj2007 wrote:That's what we were discussing on this page.
Again no, since it affects everyone ...
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby coderJeff » Jan 16, 2021 4:05

Let's assume for a moment that we're talking about a person that is new to FreeBASIC, and also that the goal is to get this new user up and running having the least amount of knowledge possible. Maybe they are new to programming also ... it doesn't matter if we just talking about getting a program and making it do something.

WinFBE Editor and FreeBASIC Compiler (All-in-One Package) by Paul Squires
The steps are:
- download the package
- download 7-zip or something that can deal with 'rar' packages. (*)
- extract the package (*)
- run WinFBE32 or WinFBE64
- press the 'New File' button
- paste in or type in a program in the *untitled* edit window and press CTRL+SHIFT+F5 to run it.

This is really close to being the easiest thing possible to get up and running with FreeBASIC. And if a couple of steps (*) given to an installer program (or custom fbc program) to handle I don't think could make it easier. I'm sure there's other ways too besides an installer, like 'wget' or batch files, or whatever, but I don't think that would make it easier.

Paul last updated the all-in-one package in Nov 2020 for fbc-1.07.1, and in Dec 2020 I added a link to WinFBE in fbc readme.txt, with FBIDE and FBedit moving to the second and third spots.

If download sizes, or what parts gets installed, or varied user preferences either for installing in to mingw-w64 itself, mutliple versions of fbc, etc, etc. I think that would need a different approach to automate, like a web-installer / package manager kind of program and maybe beyond the scope of a plain offline installer.
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby jj2007 » Jan 16, 2021 11:13

coderJeff wrote:Let's assume for a moment that we're talking about a person that is new to FreeBASIC, and also that the goal is to get this new user up and running having the least amount of knowledge possible. Maybe they are new to programming also ... it doesn't matter if we just talking about getting a program and making it do something.

WinFBE Editor and FreeBASIC Compiler (All-in-One Package) by Paul Squires
The steps are:
- download the package
- download 7-zip or something that can deal with 'rar' packages. (*)
- extract the package (*)
- run WinFBE32 or WinFBE64
- press the 'New File' button
- paste in or type in a program in the *untitled* edit window and press CTRL+SHIFT+F5 to run it.

I just tried these steps, and hooray!, it works...

I now have C:\WinFBE_Suite\WinFBE_Suite\WinFBE32.exe because I didn't realise that putting C:\ as the extract-to folder would have worked - and that would not have happened with an installer.

But this is minor criticism. The real question is: can we all agree to link the main Download & Install button to Paul Squires' package? Can the authors of alternative IDEs agree with that? That is the delicate point here.

Btw Paul's package occupies 376MB of disk space, the plain FreeBASIC-1.07.3-win64 only 138MB.
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby Xusinboy Bekchanov » Jan 16, 2021 11:38

jj2007 wrote:But this is minor criticism. The real question is: can we all agree to link the main Download & Install button to Paul Squires' package? Can the authors of alternative IDEs agree with that? That is the delicate point here.

I agree. I am for.
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Re: FreeBASIC 1.08 Development

Postby jj2007 » Jan 16, 2021 11:46

Knowing how much work you invested in VisualFBEditor, this is a courageous statement. Thank you, Xusinboy.

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