Albert's thread

For other topics related to the FreeBASIC project or its community.
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 3069
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Re: Albert's thread

Postby deltarho[1859] » May 04, 2021 20:55

paul doe wrote:That's ok. It wasn't all that interesting anyway...

Said a moderator to one of the great unwashed. I wonder what sauvin thinks about Paul's comment.

If I were you Paul I'd keep off the keyboard for a while - you are digging yourself into a hole. coderJeff must now be wondering "Oh dear, what have I done?"
dodicat wrote:Four names in blue for a score of regulars.

If Paul sticks with his current tack it won't be long before we are back to three again. When Imortis won the competition a few years back I put Paul down as my first choice. I would not have done so if I thought it would go to his head; which, it seems to me, it has.
angros47
Posts: 1870
Joined: Jun 21, 2005 19:04

Re: Albert's thread

Postby angros47 » May 04, 2021 21:00

He has been immediately tossed in deep water, and he had to start swimming with no warning

Paul, I am sorry that in your first day as a moderator you had to deal with a bad drama. I appreciated what you have done, don't let some angry people discourage you
paul doe
Moderator
Posts: 1430
Joined: Jul 25, 2017 17:22
Location: Argentina

Re: Albert's thread

Postby paul doe » May 04, 2021 21:44

deltarho[1859] wrote:...
If I were you Paul I'd keep off the keyboard for a while - you are digging yourself into a hole. coderJeff must now be wondering "Oh dear, what have I done?"
...

Why? So far, you are the only one that deemed appropriate to derail the original topic, and instead start talking about my modding posture and demanding (we also have a different concept of 'suggestion', apparently) that the topic be deleted, with no reason whatsoever to do so. And I stand: there is no reason for that.
badidea
Posts: 2328
Joined: May 24, 2007 22:10
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Albert's thread

Postby badidea » May 04, 2021 22:07

For what it is worth, I think it was a wise decision to ban Albert. It is still sad, because he clearly has some issues and this ban could affect him badly. But he kept ignoring all the warnings and must have been aware that it was coming, illustrated by his last words on this forum: "Don't ban me, for posting this CoderJeff..".

Most of his posts were not violating the terms of use (a few were), but a large percentage of his 6000 posts contained mathematical or scientific nonsense. Those posts were pretty hard to ignore if you value scientific integrity/principles. But when you tried to help or correct Albert, most of your input was ignored and more nonsense followed.

And I don't see much harm in discussing the ban of a member since 2006 with that many posts. Ignoring that would be more inappropriate/unethical.
Last edited by badidea on May 04, 2021 22:30, edited 3 times in total.
deltarho[1859]
Posts: 3069
Joined: Jan 02, 2017 0:34
Location: UK

Re: Albert's thread

Postby deltarho[1859] » May 04, 2021 22:13

Paul I acknowledge your comments as a matter of courtesy. I have no additional comments to make as I have vacated this thread.

However, I will correct you on two points:

1) "you are the only one that deemed appropriate to derail the original topic". angros47 agreed with me at the end of his second post.

2) "... that the topic be deleted, with no reason whatsoever to do so". I made that clear in the first line of my first post.
jj2007
Posts: 2133
Joined: Oct 23, 2016 15:28
Location: Roma, Italia
Contact:

Re: Albert's thread

Postby jj2007 » May 04, 2021 22:57

sauvin wrote:I am a moderator ... the only answer we know how to give these kinds of questions is "We felt this action was necessary for the greatest good of the greatest number".

"The greatest good of the greatest number", that is an interesting stance - btw heavily discussed in economic theory.

Despite his age, I see Albert in the same situation as a handicapped school child that cannot read and write like his companions, and therefore gets frequently bullied. You would certainly find (many) parents saying "this child slows down the development of our kids, it must be removed from this class and sent to a dedicated school for handicapped kids".

Google finds 200 Million hits for handicapped children school inclusion ; the score for handicapped old men in programming fora is considerably less impressive, and I doubt that these hits cover our specific case here. Nonetheless inclusion is obviously a hot topic.

Being in the non-thinking category of members, I feel that we could still live with the immense damage that Albert does to our forum, and tolerate his posts, with some special rules of course. I am still curious to see the arguments of our thinking members.
badidea wrote:his last words on this forum: "Don't ban me, for posting this CoderJeff.."
I saw this, too, and thought that he must be really desperate.
angros47
Posts: 1870
Joined: Jun 21, 2005 19:04

Re: Albert's thread

Postby angros47 » May 04, 2021 23:16

jj2007 wrote:Being in the non-thinking category of members, I feel that we could still live with the immense damage that Albert does to our forum, and tolerate his posts, with some special rules of course. I am still curious to see the arguments of our thinking members.


We could still live with that: but why should we?
We could also live with spammers, but we have chosen not to do. Accepting Albert back would give some issues to the forum (basically, more annoyance, more time wasted for moderators, more arguments), and zero advantages. Can you tell me what gain would the forum have, by admitting him back? He would bring no contributes, only broken code.
And we would give him no help, either, since he seems unable to listen at any suggestion, or to forget them after few days

And no, you cannot say "with some special rules of course", this is absolutely impossible: Albert has proven to be unable to observe even the standard rules, so it's unlikely he could observe any special rule.

You wanted to hear my argument: my argument is that we should consider cost-benefit. And while I can see several costs, I can't see a single benefit, after his behavior of the last year.
badidea
Posts: 2328
Joined: May 24, 2007 22:10
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Albert's thread

Postby badidea » May 04, 2021 23:38

jj2007 wrote:... (but I suspect he is in his eighties...).
Totally not relevant, but ... more like 55, based on his profile picture on various websites (twitter, facebook, soundcloud), and that wrote that he was in the army in 1984.
jj2007
Posts: 2133
Joined: Oct 23, 2016 15:28
Location: Roma, Italia
Contact:

Re: Albert's thread

Postby jj2007 » May 05, 2021 0:07

speedfixer wrote:I did not see Albert's post.
I don't follow ALbert's threads.
I recognize he has a problem we can't fix.

But he does remind me that I could be like that, one day, and I would like to think that there is some compassion that a stranger could offer: it might be my only lifeline.
Wise words, speedfixer.
speedfixer
Posts: 480
Joined: Nov 28, 2012 1:27
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Albert's thread

Postby speedfixer » May 05, 2021 4:36

Thank you.

All of the discussion may help everyone be more clear about their position, but the bottom line is the same:

If he gave bad medical advice - it cannot stand.

Must a moderator be present at any instant to catch a dangerous post?
That is not reasonable.

Is he likely to do it again?

Who wants to take that chance?
Who of you would bear that risk for the community?

Who of you would bear that risk for the person that followed that advice?

I have searched the 'net and found some very strange poor info in some very strange places.
I don't want this forum to be one of those places.

If you accept any responsibility for the community you belong to, there is no choice.
If you don't feel that sense of community, then you shouldn't be a part of this conversation.
This is not directed at any one person. This conversation is for all to see and ponder .. and feel.

These expressions by eveyone have been with both heart and mind. Some a little cold and dry.
I'm torn. I wish I knew where Albert is and could find a way to help.
I can't.

I HAVE helped random strangers many times in my life. My efforts were not always appreciated.
I would do it again. But I can't help everyone, and some just ---- help doesn't work.

Meanwhile, THIS exposure by Albert can't be tolerated.

I have no more to say. Infighting about it won't change the topic.

The topic is NOT about whether or not this thread should be deleted.
(I don't feel it should. I am not the moderator. I won't stop using FB because of one persons opinion.)

david
bfuller
Posts: 351
Joined: Jun 02, 2007 12:35
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Albert's thread

Postby bfuller » May 05, 2021 6:01

Even though I don't really care, I do feel obliged to chime in........

I think the issue here is a very broad one with modern online life.....and I try to apply this quote "getting offended and reacting by what you read on the internet is like seeing dog droppings on the footpath and choosing to step in it rather walk around it". This particularly applies to Facebook, but forums are almost as bad. Why is it that special interest groups were particularly used by Trump haters? Why do people type stuff on line that they would never say in person?----it is because they can hide behind the inherent arms length situation.

Many times over the last few months, I have penned an input to this Forum and then deleted it before hitting "Submit" because of my "dog poo" approach.

But now poor old Albert has gone "in the interest of the majority of good for the majority of members" I suppose. Being a moderator is a thankless task, unpaid, by volunteers, in their own time (like being a coach or referee in a kids sport team, the spectators love criticising all decisions, but the game can't function without them, and most parents avoid the responsibility at all cost).

I really liked the old Circles topic, then Squares. If you sifted through the rubbish, there were some real gems posted every now and then, and I used to participate in the banter every now and then. It is a great pity that we couldn't steer Albert in any direction. If he could have accepted ideas, suggestions and so forth, maybe he could have solved some big programming challenge-------but he couldn't. In fact, as said by others, he didn't seem to be able to grasp even fundamental concepts. I do know he is a member of other online chat groups (I "googled" him too, some years back). He does also suffer some ridicule elsewhere for his outlandish ideas, but even if we have been some sort of support group for him, he is not being left entirely alone.

On the one hand, some here liked him, some didn't----so what? Some like coffee, others like tea--so what?
On the other hand, I often use google when trying to find a ready made solution to a programming thing---I use Arduino a lot, but also NI Labview and most often there is already an example somewhere that can get me started on a task. Getting something "up and running" or to even compile is often my hardest challenge. After then, it is a matter of making small incremental changes to get what i want, with frequent version saving so i can always go back. I guess this forum is like that for FreeBasic-----whenever I want to try something out, Search is my friend to get started.----so having copious erroneous code hanging around could definitely get people off on the wrong foot (same with erroneous medical advice I guess!).

This Forum is particularly good in general. Very little rubbish, no abusive stuff to speak of and if it creeps in occasionally it gets pulled up pretty quick, mostly high quality technical discussions about the topic in hand. Yes, it is a very good forum in that regard. The developers need a huge pat on the back and the moderators do an excellent job. The members are 99.99% committed too. (only the occasional rant by someone complaining about why they left some other forum, or someone trying to convince us that some other language is better (dog poo!) Ha Ha.

Good luck Albert! I hope your professional support network catches you if you stumble.
BasicCoder2
Posts: 3738
Joined: Jan 01, 2009 7:03
Location: Australia

Re: Albert's thread

Postby BasicCoder2 » May 05, 2021 7:51

@bfuller
I really liked the old Circles topic, then Squares. If you sifted through the rubbish, there were some real gems posted every now and then ...

Gems which are lost forever, too much rubbish to sift through. Actually most forums are 90% rubbish with a few gems from a few talented people.
Maybe Albert needed a section that would auto delete after a couple of weeks.
jj2007
Posts: 2133
Joined: Oct 23, 2016 15:28
Location: Roma, Italia
Contact:

Re: Albert's thread

Postby jj2007 » May 05, 2021 7:57

bfuller wrote:I "googled" him too, some years back
Thanks, bfuller, for a thoughtful post. How did you find him, do you know his family name?
BasicCoder2 wrote:Maybe Albert needed a section that would auto delete after a couple of weeks.
That's what I thought, too.
badidea
Posts: 2328
Joined: May 24, 2007 22:10
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Albert's thread

Postby badidea » May 05, 2021 8:54

speedfixer wrote:If he gave bad medical advice - it cannot stand

That was not the reason why he was banned. That post was moderated and solved quickly. And no sane person would have followed that 'advice' anyway.

jj2007 wrote:Thanks, bfuller, for a thoughtful post. How did you find him, do you know his family name?

He posted his family name with full address several times with the song lyrics he wanted to share. The posts are still there.
jj2007
Posts: 2133
Joined: Oct 23, 2016 15:28
Location: Roma, Italia
Contact:

Re: Albert's thread

Postby jj2007 » May 05, 2021 10:02

Found him. Different from what I expected, actually.

Return to “Community Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests