Dreams for freebasic's future...

Windows specific questions.
hippy
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Postby hippy » Mar 10, 2006 15:04

xiNoNix wrote:The PR for FB was pathetic.


I agree.

Yes, it was the wrong forum to post in, but this poster was just laid into, no holds barred. Part of the art of communication is in understanding who one is dealing with and being able to communicate appropriately. Sadly much of the response amounts to, "you are stupid". Hardly the best or most appropriate way to welcome a new FB discoverer to the fold.
1000101
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Postby 1000101 » Mar 10, 2006 15:09

If you shoot yourself in the foot, do you expect doctors to have sympathy for you?
xiNoNix
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Postby xiNoNix » Mar 10, 2006 15:30

Hi 1000101,

Who shot who in the foot, though? From my viewpoint, FB's foot is bleeding.


And my earlier question to you was - what question did thriller ask? Because thriller sure got a lot of answers!

:-)



In summary, it seems there was a hi, a "props" for an acknowledged young language, a caution that there might be some language/communication difficulties - and a dream list with about 10k programmer years of features, some right out there. So what?

Maybe thriller would be the one to create the all-singing all-dancing all-integrated development environment. Or the next "newb" might be the one. If they don't nick off thinking "what a shower". :b


The responses weren't really about answering thriller's non-existing questions, were they? It was all about displaying (by implication) superior technical expertise.


:^D
1000101
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Postby 1000101 » Mar 10, 2006 16:23

No, not about displaying superior expertise, but about pointing out immature ideas. He doesn't have the background knowledge to understand what he's asking let alone why some of the things would be very difficult to implement.

There are two sides of the coin. You're saying we're being smug jerks, we're saying that the ideas just aren't feasable.

"I want to make a 3D RPG in QB! What is a Sub?"

This is basically what the situation boils down to. Not having the base knowledge to ask the right questions or express opinions which are logical or make a wishlist which is attainable.
hippy
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Postby hippy » Mar 10, 2006 17:35

1000101 wrote:There are two sides of the coin. You're saying we're being smug jerks, we're saying that the ideas just aren't feasable.


It was the way it was said. Much of it was a personal attack on the poster.

Just because something does not appear feasible doesn't mean that it is not desirable or worth dreaming of. Why shouldn't one programming language be able to include code from other using an extremely simple mechanism ? Why shouldn't there be an extremely simple way to create multi-platform GUI's for FB without having to jump through the hoops of learning the intricacies of libraries and so forth ? Why could an interactive debugger akin to that for Visual Basic not ever be created for FB ?

Simply saying something cannot be done is narrow mindedness and arrogance.
jofers
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Postby jofers » Mar 10, 2006 18:00

Oooooh! Tension. Drama! Suspense! (Romance?)

All within the unfolding perfervid epic of a compiler support forum. I'm gonna pop some popcorn, I'm just tingled over with excitement!
xiNoNix
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Postby xiNoNix » Mar 10, 2006 22:24

:D
1000101
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Postby 1000101 » Mar 11, 2006 0:36

hippy wrote:Why shouldn't there be an extremely simple way to create multi-platform GUI's for FB without having to jump through the hoops of learning the intricacies of libraries and so forth ? Why could an interactive debugger akin to that for Visual Basic not ever be created for FB ?

Simply saying something cannot be done is narrow mindedness and arrogance.


Picking the simplest and easiest examples to implement and not considering the real world and the real man hours it takes to do the harder and more involving tasks is asinine and genius [/flame]

Now, those two particular examples are easy to implement (by comparison) to the dream of adding inline C/C++/Java/PHP/Cobol/Pascal/Delphi/Rex/Python/Lua/Yak/Dos/CP/M/UFO/AGP/PCI/TNT/Dynamite/etc.

Somethings are not as simple as writing a GUI editor, some are a lot more complex and require multiple compilers to do every single thing. Adding in additional languages into FB is not simple a flight of fancy but a crash of sagacity.
xiNoNix
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Postby xiNoNix » Mar 11, 2006 0:46

Ummm, your [/flame] is in the wrong place. It should be at the end of your post! :)
hippy
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Postby hippy » Mar 11, 2006 0:56

Dreams are not constrained by man hours nor difficulty of implementation and should not be.

The island of La Palma looks set, at some time in the future, to collapse into the sea causing a tsunami which could kill millions. Some say that it is futile to try and prevent such an inevitability, some say it couldn't be done, some say it's not worth the cost, others say at least consider what could possibly be done, whether ultimately achievable or not.

There's nothing genius about having an open mind about possibilities. Many of the things we take for granted today exist in the face of, can't be done, not possible, won't be done, will never happen.
tunginobi
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Postby tunginobi » Mar 11, 2006 2:55

Err... thanks for the brown eye. Does anybody know a practical way to claw out my eyes and still let me keep my eyesight? :P

Dr. Gregory House: You see two things: the world as it is, and the world as it should be. The problem is that you don't see what everybody else sees: the gaping void in between.

Being a developer really is a balancing act between dreaming and feasibility. Without creativity, development would never have taken the twists and turns and revolutions to make itself what it has become today. On the other hand, the feasibility is like the driving force, being able to say what's possible and what's not.

Most of us have to land somewhere in the middle: being creative enough to produce software that pushes the field forward, but at the same time realising that not everything is possible, in that the benefits of, say, implementing inline language embedding of PHP in FB, outweighs the costs of doing so.

So... be creative, but be practical too.
xiNoNix
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Postby xiNoNix » Mar 11, 2006 3:08

And ..

By all means, be assertive, but be polite, too.
By all means, teach and guide, but with courtesy.

:b
v1ctor
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Postby v1ctor » Mar 11, 2006 6:37

Hi thriller, welcome, i hope this won't be your first and last message :).

All items you listed are really hard to be added (and impossible in some cases as the inline languages but ASM), but well, the title says they are "Dreams" so, who knows.. :)
thriller
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Postby thriller » Mar 11, 2006 7:07

v1ctor wrote:Hi thriller, welcome, i hope this won't be your first and last message :).

All items you listed are really hard to be added (and impossible in some cases as the inline languages but ASM), but well, the title says they are "Dreams" so, who knows.. :)


Hi and thanx again father and friends of freebasic.
I'm coming to discuss and look forward for better future, not fight. :)
Who knows, nothing is imposible. Only keep freebasic free and open, my friends. Make freebasic extendable with addins and other features. let php complier compile php parts, others others. I can say it'll be not very long from now.
Best wishes and regards to everybody who really love basic, freebasic and creativity!
VonGodric
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Postby VonGodric » Mar 11, 2006 9:53

well actually about implementing other sources as inline. It is somewhat possible. You just need a tool that seperates one big source file that has different languages inline and compiles each part on an appropriate compiler and then links it all together. While it is possible -to create such a tool would be extraordinarily complex -but would be more feasible approach then build it all into freebasic.

And sry I was in a fool mood yesterday when I wrote my reply. There are several projects going on to create a gui for freebasic -I myself have 2 of them. One is based purely on fb (using gfxlib for gfx ) and the other is a wrapper around wxWidgets. I know there's a wx-c But I don't like the way it works. I hope that both api's would be in the end somewhat compatible and code reusable. This is my small goal -where wx wrapper can't be used I could use a fb version of GUI (like DOS, or to avoid problems with dependencies in Linux)

And also I'm working on a IDE project (ever since FB started ). It ain't as good or polished as VisualBasic's IDE, but do forgive me here -I'm just a single guy writing this as a hobby, while VB is written by team of proffessionals in a multi-billion corporation.

So I do also have dreams and wishes what FreeBASIC should be like.

And like a wise man said -Without dreams our life would be empty -and life being empty isn't worth living.

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