Observations.

[Munair]

That being said, I deem MrSwiss far more worthy of being reinstated than jj2007. MrSwiss attitude wasn't all that good, but at least he was truly helpful.

MrSwiss' attitude towards others wasn't great to put it mildly. jj2007 on the other hand was mostly friendly towards others and his only "crime' was his criticism towards FB. In addition, he has been helpful as well.

The fact that you deem MrSwiss far more worthy of being reinstated confirms my opinion about you as a moderator. You shouldn't have changed jj's suspension to a ban based on what was posted on other forums. That very much looks like taking things personal.

[badidea]

Oh bummer, I wanted to reply on deltarho's colourful use of that 'minority language', but I fear that will vanish in replies on paul does's reaction.

[Vortex]

I know jj from the assembly forums since long years. He is a very skilled coder and I am sure he can contribute the FreeBASIC forum. Kindly, can the forum moderators reevaluate their decision regarding jj? Probably, the forum administration can talk to him and find a way to rearrange what went wrong.

[St_W]

[...] The last member who called out on him was St_W, telling him that his answer 'wasn't all that helpful'. The warning level was raised to 'official'. [...]

viewtopic.php?p=290047#p290047

As I unfortunately seem to be somehow involved here, some of my thoughts: Yes, jj's first answer in that thread wasn't really helpful, but it wasn't really annoying either. For example, I'd consider people asking for help but ignoring given advice or questions at least as annoying. This wasn't the case for jj at all, his next reply was helpful, that's what he probably should have written in the beginning. Only the part where he was playing down the warning and not taking it seriously, was again unnecessary.

I understand that this was just one of many cases and I agree that ignoring (unofficial and official) warnings should ultimately lead to a ban.

What I view with some doubt is the short interval between warning, temporary ban and permanent ban. Also considering jj has been a member for many years. When one is disciplined by a moderator it's relatable (depending on the personality, e.g. if one's impulsive) that the person might overreact first (blocks, ignores, is angry about the decision) and one needs some time to process it. Giving the person some time to think about it (temporary ban) and then reassessing the person's behaviour afterwards would be reasonable IMO. What's important is whether the behaviour changes ultimately (within reasonable time).

I think it's jj who has to make the next move now. As long as he isn't understanding, I'd consider the ban strict but justifiable, given paul doe's explanation.

One last thing: While I don't agree on all points (e.g. the MrSwiss comparison) I don't think calling for paul doe's resignation (or even dismissal) is appropriate - the explanation sounds legit, there are no arbitrary actions without cause.

(unfortunately i can't express myself in english as well as deltarho )

[BasicCoder2]

@St_W

... but it wasn't really annoying either.

Some people are very easily annoyed and ready to take offence.

[Munair]

Yes, jj's first answer in that thread wasn't really helpful, but it wasn't really annoying either.

I very much agree.

What I view with some doubt is the short interval between warning, temporary ban and permanent ban. Also considering jj has been a member for many years.

Valid points, which is why careful moderation is so important.

[deltarho[1859]]

MrSwiss attitude wasn't all that good, but at least he was truly helpful.

So was Jimmy Savile.

Some people develop a persona that is the polar opposite of their true self with the sole intention of satisfying their inner self's desires. Paedophiles are one example, and psychopaths are another. If anyone fell for MrSwiss' antics, then he was successful. So what was his desires? I don't know. What I do know is that before he got banned, I was starting to feel sorry for him and his attacks on me began to have no effect because I reckoned his brain's wiring was off-kilter. There is no place for such an individual in a Peer Support Community.

So, what am I – a psychologist already? No but I have been around the block a few times and half of my little library is about cosmology and the other half is about psychology. I started reading psychology in my twenties when I was reading mathematics and kept it up. The last book I bought was a few months ago on the history of psychology, going back to the early part of the last century.

jj2007 is not a MrSwiss.

I understand that this was just one of many cases and I agree that ignoring (unofficial and official) warnings should ultimately lead to a ban

I agree but not necessarily a whole life tariff. A suspension to me should be the order of the day; perhaps a hefty one in some cases. Exceptionally a permanent ban should be imposed as with MrSwiss.

The title of the thread stated by jj2007 at the other forum is: “Banned from the FreeAsic forum, hooray!” That was stupid. Jochen will be reading this. Sorry, my friend, but that was stupid.

I think it's jj who has to make the next move now.

How? He and Paul need to be on better terms. If Paul is agreeable, I could try to persuade Jochen to contact him. Putin and Biden are still talking, and Kiev is still standing.

Paul, I have just asked Jochen if he would agree to write to you with a view to settling your differences. Would you agree to speak with him?

[dodicat]

deltarho
jj2007 is not a native English speaker.
If his (excellent) English derives from the antipodes, possible, then hooray means goodbye down there.
paul doe
thank you for your answer.

[Lost Zergling]

It is a known fact that my deep regret at each ban. The truly superhuman effort that I make to silence the zerg side in me is certainly to my credit, but I would like to dedicate it to jj2007 our brotherhood who certainly deserves more than a provocation, however witty and amusing it may be.

[badidea]

For what it is worth, my opinion is that jj2007 should have been banned only temporarily. One can always increase the duration step-wise, the next time. This was too fast.

...

A reaction like “Banned from the FreeAsic forum, hooray!” can be interpreted in various ways. Like "Its my luck day, two flat tires, hooray!". And what one says elsewhere, while emotions are still high, carries less weight, I think. If someone spams multiple fora for days with negativity after a ban, that would be different of course.

I think it's jj who has to make the next move now.

If I am banned somewhere, I am not going to beg to return. Best, in my opinion, is to set duration back to 30 days, tell jj2007 that the permanent ban was inappropriate, but with a warning again.

And on Putin, I do not think that he is going to seize Kiev, he is to smart for that. It will be a bad time for the people in the Ukraine I fear.

[caseih]

I got banned from the PowerBASIC forum years ago for pointing out that all of PB's Windows compilers were 16-bit still (because of PB's assembly legacy which made the jump extremely difficult for them), even though they emit 32-bit code. Guess that rubbed someone the wrong way. It got a bit strange with all sorts of personal accusations coming at me from one of PB's employees at the time. Maybe it was Bob himself using an alias; I don't know. Was a truly weird experience! I certainly didn't beg to be let back in. In fact I joined this forum at that time as it was clear if I wanted to use any of my old PB/DOS programs still (on Linux), I'd be using FreeBASIC to port them. Despite that I still remember PB/DOS 4.5 with fondness. I still have the reference manuals somewhere. Real books!

[deltarho[1859]]

I think jj2007 originates from Germany.

I have just received an email from him, and he is not prepared to communicate with Paul Doe. He gave me a reason why, and I accepted it. I was getting ready to appeal to coderJeff but with Jochen's refusal I cannot see Jeff overriding the permanent ban. I told Jochen: “We are now at an impasse and I cannot help any further.”

The lesson to be leant here is that we must all strive to be civil and polite to each other. Neither Paul nor Jochen come out of this smelling of roses. I should not be saying that of a moderator, and I still ask Paul to consider his position.

Oh well, I gave it my best shot and am now out of this thread.

Dear oh dear.

[Munair]

The question is, would jj2007 have been banned without paul doe as a moderator? Probably not. And that is the problem I have with a community. A permanent ban, especially someone who's been a member for several years, is radical and should be discussed thoroughly rather than being done in hastiness. Imortis didn't know, so it was not discussed. Slow(?) communication between mods due to different time zones is not a valid argument for a hasty decision (the decision to turn a 30 days suspension into a permanent ban).

Another point is that if a member gets banned permanently, it should be made public immediately, but Paul did not post anything about the ban as he did about the suspension. Everyone had to guess based on posts on another forum. A moderator acting on his own like that is not good for any forum IMO. I will leave it at that.

[RockTheSchock]

I don't know how a permanent ban is handled internally now, but maybe it would be good if at least one additional moderator has to rewiew the matter, before a permanent ban is issued.

[dodicat]

Thanks for trying deltarho.
The community is not happy, never mind, the world is not happy this morning.
After a couple of days who would want to re join anyway. Good for you jj2007 and good luck in the Masm basic project.
I wish the FreeBASIC project well. IMO SARG has made the biggest contribution recently. One person versus the whole gcc team.
I would urge members to test their code with -gen gas64 and report bugs to SARG so that branch of freeBASIC can blossom.
I won't be posting much more in fb, but I will be testing my old code in -gen gas64 and reporting singularities.