Bye Bye

[dodicat]

I don't think operator+ is arrogant, probably young and impatient.
Why be abusive to new members.
OK I am abusive to the moderators sometimes, but they can take it. Freebasic is getting a bad name by senior members' supercilious manner towards others, or beginners.

[jj2007]

What FreeBasic definitely doesn't need is arrogant people wanting everything but the kitchen sink readily available without being willing to invest barely any time and resources themselves.

With my almost 40 years of experience in BASIC programming (including the latest one on using a library), I'd suggest to rename it to FreeAsic. I know that this might offend quite a number of brave people here, but if you scroll through the forum, you will find an immense wealth of posts dealing with cryptic error messages, specific tool chains and other problems that I never, ever saw in BASIC dialects... sorry if that sounds rude, but it's just an observation.

[Imortis]

I don't think operator+ is arrogant, probably young and impatient.

I agree here.

Why be abusive to new members.

I didn't see anyone being outright abusive to this person. He made unreasonable demands and got upset when no one jumped to fulfil them.

OK I am abusive to the moderators sometimes, but they can take it.

Also agreed. If we couldn't take it, we wouldn't be good for the position. That being said, we're still human beings. Just because we can take it doesn't me we should have to. Criticize as you like, but please keep the actual abuse to a minimum.

Freebasic is getting a bad name by senior members' supercilious manner towards others, or beginners.

I can agree we have a large number of... egos... in this forum that like to think they have all the best answers. This is something that happens anytime you have individuals who have dedicated years of time and effort to learning a skill or amassing a body of knowledge. It's exactly the same in every other programming community on the internet.

That being said, we could be a bit nicer to beginners when they come in, provided they are actually putting in the effort to learn.

Operator+ hasn't done this. In fact, this whole thread was an effort to "frighten" us into giving them what they want by threatening to leave. Otherwise, what would be the point of making a big post about leaving then hanging around after the fact to argue with people? I think it's clear that the members here aren't afraid of loosing newcomers. Whether that is good or bad is a matter of perspective.

[Munair]

That being said, we could be a bit nicer to beginners when they come in, provided they are actually putting in the effort to learn.

That is my take as well.

[Munair]

if you scroll through the forum, you will find an immense wealth of posts dealing with cryptic error messages

To be fair, under what circumstances and attempts do such error messages occur?

I'm developing the SharpBASIC compiler with FreeBASIC and the code base has reached over 12k lines not counting include files. In two years I have not had a single cryptic error message nor did the compiler (1.07 - 1.09) fail me once.

I dare to say that many of those error messages you're referring to have to do with HOW and what for the language is used. FreeBASIC in my experience is a very capable compiler. It's not perfect and there is quite a list of bugs, but that is true for any open source project driven by developers contributing in their spare-time.

[aurelVZAB]

When I read this, the first thing that comes to mind is laziness.

- yeah bingo ! mun ..i mean mAir

Coding takes TIME and effort and it should be respected rather than met with criticism.

- sure !

You guys only grabbed people's code and use them without giving back anything.

-What ? what and what ?
-yes ..who are "you guys" ?
-you mention Rust and Go , do you think that Rust or Go programmers made some libraries
-for FreeBasic ..No i don't think so ..and "don't add grease to fat gusse neck"


But except for those few GO people, they just sit in a lazy chair and complain.

-yes marcov..1000% you have a right !!!

well if is young and un-patient i can understand that of course but he sound like a crying baby
too much ..
For the sake ..if you don't know something or don't understand ..ASK...

[Munair]

@aurelVZAB, there is a quote button and it doesn't cost you anything to use it.

[aurelVZAB]

fpgui is a bare metal gui toolkit

- ouff i really never heard of that thing ..stupid me

@aurelVZAB, there is a quote button and it doesn't cost you anything to use it

- you know ..hmm i don't like it

[aurelVZAB]

But I have no problems writting procedural C style FreeBASIC

..and then where is the problem ..don't use OOP...i hate OOP too.

[aurelVZAB]

Operator+ hasn't done this. In fact, this whole thread was an effort to "frighten" us into giving them what they want by threatening to leave. Otherwise, what would be the point of making a big post about leaving then hanging around after the fact to argue with people? I think it's clear that the members here aren't afraid of loosing newcomers. Whether that is good or bad is a matter of perspective.

Hi Imortis ...i think that you are smart , i never think on this post in this way
hmmm

[St_W]

I don't think operator+ is arrogant, probably young and impatient.
Why be abusive to new members.

Sorry, probably chose the wrong word here (keep in mind, I'm not an English native, as many other people here as well). What I wanted to point out is that criticizing without trying to find solutions and investing time and effort in doing to is of low to no value. And that people often only request things and want to have things, without doing anything themselves, in a very ungrateful (that maybe would have been a better word instead of "arrogant") way.

[deltarho[1859]]

Perhaps I am a simple soul, but I use FreeBASIC to write Windows GUI/Console applications. If we start talking about 'bindings', then there may be issues with FreeBASIC, but they do not bother me because I have no interest in that – my interest is the opening sentence and nothing else.

If users of my Encrypternet application find it useful and fast enough for their purposes, then they shouldn't care less what language it was written in. I very much doubt that if Encrypternet was written in another language, it would be better for it.

Clearly operator+ wants more than I do, and FreeBASIC falls short. I should imagine that most languages fall short of what some people want. It is then simply a matter of finding a language which doesn't.

There are so many hidden magics that sometimes I read code I can't even know what he is actually writting.

That is a bit much for someone who only joined this forum five weeks ago. When I first came here, five years ago from PowerBASIC, there were a few FreeBASIC issues which really annoyed me. However, I cannot remember the last time that I got annoyed. Even now, I will see some code which I do not understand. It doesn't take long, by reading the documentation, to get up to speed. I very rarely hit a brick wall, but when I do, I come here. More often than not it is fxm who comes to my rescue.

If FreeBASIC does not work for operator+ then so be it – it is not going to win everybody over. Some languages have been written to do just that – but none of them have been 100% successful, and I doubt that there will ever be one.

but please keep the actual abuse to a minimum.

NO! There is no excuse for abuse at any level. Being “civil and polite” is the only way we should conduct ourselves. The only time that the level of abuse should be considered is in deciding how long to suspend members for. Suspensions should start at 30 days and no less.

PS Anyone new to FreeBASIC should get FreeBASIC Beginners Guide. That goes up to fbc 1.07.

[aurelVZAB]

from all his "operator+" ( give me a break...operator )
posts ..it is clear to me that he was atracted by amount of libraries FreeBasic can use
BUT he is frustrated because he cannot use it in a way he want .

[Imortis]

but please keep the actual abuse to a minimum.

NO! There is no excuse for abuse at any level. Being “civil and polite” is the only way we should conduct ourselves. The only time that the level of abuse should be considered is in deciding how long to suspend members for. Suspensions should start at 30 days and no less.

I was referring to the level of abuse directed at the moderators. No abuse would be ideal, of course.

[jj2007]

I think it's clear that the members here aren't afraid of loosing newcomers. Whether that is good or bad is a matter of perspective.

That's an interesting point