OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

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angros47
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Joined: Jun 21, 2005 19:04

OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by angros47 »

Many of us know how, in the last year's, the site QB64.net was totally abandoned, and the new official support forum had become the one on qb64.org

In these days, the latter site has been destroyed:

https://qb64phoenix.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=42
caseih
Posts: 2157
Joined: Feb 26, 2007 5:32

Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by caseih »

Wow! Thank goodness for open source. Also shows the value of archiving things like wikis.

I feel that FB is in good hands currently, but I also hope the wiki is being backed up somewhere and accessible. Perhaps the developers (and @fxm) might consider placing the wiki pages in a git repo alongside the source code repo. I've seen other projects do that. Helps grant continuity and life to a project should something happen to the main parties involved.
marcov
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Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by marcov »

Most wiki's and fora are database, not file based afaik.
caseih
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Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by caseih »

Some wikis are text files. And it's possible to dump the wiki database as text. Like I said, I've seen the contents of wikis posted to github for some projects. I feel backing up to github in some way that someone could rebuild the wiki down the road is extremely important. Even if it's just a bunch of .sql files. I see that WikkaWiki does support exporting to various formats as well, including html. But even if a script went through and grabbed the source text for every page, that could work too, although something that was automated to keep the git repo updated every time a change is made to the wiki would be ideal.

But I recognize that the developers' time and resources are very limited. I could write a script that would parse the page index (https://www.freebasic.net/wiki/PageIndex) and grab the raw wiki source text for each page. But I suspect WikkaWiki already has a utility for quickly dumping the raw source text, and git could handle the rest. just a suggestion anyway.

I thought I found the wiki in git, but I think that's just the wiki software: https://github.com/freebasic/fbwikka which is a fork of the now abandoned WikkaWiki. The fact that WikkaWiki is a dead project is a tiny bit concerning.
adeyblue
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Joined: Nov 07, 2019 20:08

Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by adeyblue »

caseih wrote: Apr 25, 2022 13:35 But I recognize that the developers' time and resources are very limited. I could write a script that would parse the page index (https://www.freebasic.net/wiki/PageIndex) and grab the raw wiki source text for each page. But I suspect WikkaWiki already has a utility for quickly dumping the raw source text, and git could handle the rest. just a suggestion anyway.
Pretty sure there's a tool in one of those directories that can sync from the wiki to a local cache of the pages. No idea how intelligent it is in updating that cache later on, but it can do that.

EDIT:
Oh, there's a snapshot of that page cache in the git anyway, so it is already backed up on github. https://github.com/freebasic/fbc/tree/master/doc/manual

Anyway, it's always nice when people rescue 'dead' things, whether that's just for posterity or to actively use them. Big up the QBGeezers
coderJeff
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Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by coderJeff »

That's really too bad about QB64. I always had the opinion that they did a great job marketing their software / product.
caseih wrote: Apr 25, 2022 13:35 I could write a script that would parse the page index (https://www.freebasic.net/wiki/PageIndex) and grab the raw wiki source text for each page.
I often think about who might replace me. I try my best to give them a fighting chance. dkl maintained and used these tools for years during the time I wasn't involved with the project.

Snapshot of the wiki pages entered in to git every few months (as raw wakka script)
- https://github.com/freebasic/fbc/tree/master/doc/manual

A bunch of tools (written in freebasic) that help manage the wiki:
- https://github.com/freebasic/fbc/tree/m ... c/fbchkdoc
And a readme.txt of the tools available:
- https://github.com/freebasic/fbc/blob/m ... readme.txt

Here are the common tasks near release time:
5. Common Tasks
5.1 Downloading the entire wiki
5.2 Downloading changed pages since last download
5.3 Transferring pages between on-line and off-line wiki
5.4 Name case fixups
5.5 Update PrintToc
5.6 Sychronizing Wiki Samples
5.7 Synchronizing Wiki with GIT repo

The software (written in freebasic) that converts wakka script to HTML, CHM, TXT, FBHELP, formats:
- https://github.com/freebasic/fbc/tree/master/doc/fbdoc
caseih
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Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by caseih »

Oh yes, I see that now. That is good. I think that's good enough. FB is not only in good hands, it is well placed to survive any kind of catastrophe.
Provoni
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Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by Provoni »

Before FreeBASIC, I used QB64 and was a member there. Sad to see it go like that.

I remember SMcneil and Clippy, OldDosLover etc.
caseih
Posts: 2157
Joined: Feb 26, 2007 5:32

Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by caseih »

Really sad that someone no one in the community had ever heard of took control and burned it all down. But QB64 will live on. Some volunteers are building a new forum and trying to restore the wiki (see the original link posted above).

There was similar upheaval recently with the old Freenode IRC system. Same story. Ego and wanton destruction. Someone decided to burn it down, so everyone has finally moved to a new service run by volunteers at libera chat. As we can sadly see today, many humans simply want to destroy.
dodicat
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Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by dodicat »

Same happened here in this village.
We had a perfectly good pub, pool table, darts, dominoes and a really good choice of beers.
Then a stranger came in, bought the pub and shut it down.
marcov
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Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by marcov »

caseih wrote: Apr 25, 2022 23:34 Oh yes, I see that now. That is good. I think that's good enough. FB is not only in good hands, it is well placed to survive any kind of catastrophe.
It depends on how many is actually in hands not controlled by admins. Since they might all be gone if admins go rogue.

At FPC the main weakness is probably the forum. There is a crude wiki downloaded for documentation, and source (including release building) is in git. Some things (like testsuite server scripts) are fragmentary in git, but will be hard for uninitiated to get running.

That said FPC core is fairly large, and there are often more than one people that have knowledge of some topic. So unless we all go rogue :-)
caseih
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Joined: Feb 26, 2007 5:32

Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by caseih »

I keep my own local git clone of fbc updated frequently, so it turns out I had my own copy of the wiki pages all along! The offiical github repo could go away, or someone could trash the commit history. Wouldn't matter because my local copy, along with the commit history, would remain intact. That's a great thing about using git for as much as possible. There's no way to lose the compiler or the wiki as long as someone has a clone of it somewhere (and there are forks on github itself). That's why I mentioned putting the wiki pages in git, and I was pleased to hear that it's already being done!

Yes the forum is always the potential for problems. But new forums can be created and eventually the interested people find them. Definitely the qb64 experience is a good lesson for all projects.
Plasma
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Re: OT - Destruction of QB64 forum and wiki

Post by Plasma »

I have been hosting freebasic.net since 2005 and the site is regularly backed up.

A few years ago I offered to host QB64 for free but Fellippe said he wanted to handle things himself. I wish he had reached out to me instead of this weird RC Cola guy.
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